The Dark Knight (Possible SPOILERS)

[jj]

I just got home from seeing it and all I can say is.....WOW!
I can say this without any hesitation, THE greatest comic book movie in HISTORY!!! I don't care if you are a Batman fan, this movie is amazing, the screenplay/story keeps your attention through the whole duration of the movie. Heathe Ledger..... GREATEST ROLE....He is the defining Joker, he totally stole the show, but that's not to say that Christian Bale wasn't good. No, every SINGLE actor in this did a spectacular job. Chris Nolan is my new god. He turned a character that in the late 90's, was campy, and made him what he was supposed to be.... a dark hero. When I left this movie, I had goose bumbs, I was short of breathe. Hell, I'm probably gonna see it as many more times as possible. This is now, one of, if not THE greatest movie I have EVER seen. trust me, this movie isn't any old Spiderman movie...OH NO NO NO...this movie made me want to cover my eyes at time, bettween the Joker's sadistic plots, and Harvey Dent's *coughTwofacecough* face, this movie is dark. I could go on about it for days, and paragraphs more, but I'd like to hear some feedback, so what did you guys think....

[m]

I liked the movie.

But as far as Heath Ledger as Joker...?

Nah. Was NOT feeling it. Maybe if they had chosen another character with the same plot lines and different dialogue, it would have kept me. Don't get me wrong. I liked the movie. I did. I just hate how they ruined The Joker in my opinion. Instead of being The Joker, he was a guy who looked like The Joker. I hate that they made The Joker into the The Joker before he really was The Joker. Explaination? The character design. Hated it. The make up? Ugh... Such an eye sore. Instead of having bleach white skin, like The Joker really has, it was make up. Hated that. I hate how they tried to make The Joker scary. The Joker is not a scary character. He's weird. He's insane. He'll make you give him a funny look. You'd be more scared of his personality than of his appearance. Which is what I assume they were going for. To make The Joker LOOK scary, but not actually be scary. Did not like that. Heath Ledger did an okay job, but I'll take the whacky Jack Nicholson Joker over that any day. I didn't like how they made The Joker be this big scary character who was insane. I didn't. The Joker is more of a psychotic dude who dances around the place, laughing his head off, and leaving a punchline to every kill and every action. Not some raving lunatic who gets his cheap thrills off of killing or making people kill. Sure, The Joker does get cheap thrills off of the same stuff, but he does it in more of a funny fashion. The Joker is... well... a jokester. Heath Ledger's Joker was a psycho who was trying to be funny.

Overall, yeah, I liked the movie. I liked the plot. I liked what they did with it. The only thing that I didn't like was how The Joker was portrayed and how they tried to make him into someone who looks scary, rather than someone who is scary. Hopefully, they bring him back for a third movie and pick someone who can do it better. No disrespect to Heath Ledger whatsoever. He was a good actor, but just not a good Joker in my opinion. They should have looked at the BatInTheSun fan films for inspiration. That guy they got plays an AWESOME Joker for not being a Hollywood actor.


*prays for his dream Joker* Only person I say could do it better than Jack Nicholson is Jim Carrey. He's got the right facial features, he's a loon, he's got the laugh, and he's just crazy. It's highly unlikely though with him already playing The Riddler in the past. Oh well. I can dream.

[vault]

I have not seen the movie yet, but from the scenes I've seen they've come close to making him a very dark version of the BEST Joker, the Joker from the Batman Animated series voiced by Mark Hamil. Right down to the laugh. The reason I think you didn't like it Seven really is unlike the other movies Nolan was more into the Darker comics more then the old campy ones like sad to say Tim Burton did. Nolan more so then any other director saw what the joker should be. He shouldn't be funny he was supposed to be a stark raving lunatic. All the other batman villains had reasons or theme for doing what they did.

Riddler was narcissistic
Penguin was Bureaucracy gone bad
Scarecrow was a sadist in a control of power
Two-Face is Dissociative

They have clear reasons for doing what they do, then there's the Joker. He has no reasons or thought process behind his actions. He's as nutty as squirrel crap...and he's proud of it. That's what makes the character scary you can't tell what a mentally ill person is going to do.

Joker is the Yang to Batman's Yin. Batman uses his mind to solve problems and crimes sticking to what's right and Joker is a stark raving lunatic.

Batman says philosophically we can acknowledge an imperfect world and acknowledge that we have to step outside social norms but that doesn't make the social norms meaningless.

Joker on the other hand says the presence of random injustice means there is no justice, and the fact that innocence can be destroyed means there is no innocence. So your life is a joke. When Joker says that to Batman it challenges his very core being and that's a challenge he can't let go.

That's really why they make the Joker the way they do in this movie because he is Batman's defining villain because Batman could easily become just like The Joker. (See Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns for exactly why.)

[Scott Manor]

*sigh* i miss the original joker. number 1 villain in my book right next to Vader. *sigh*Heath Ledger. You're a good actor but you're A Joker not THE Joker.

Though Mikki I'll have to disagree with you. The Joker being a funny lunatic like in the original is what made him The Joker. He was never meant to be a real dark character like Batman Animated seems to try and portray Gotham and the Criminals. The guy was out of his mind and knowing the things he could do would be scary as hell if you met him, but he's funny at the same time. Joker pulls out a gun, flag saying Bang pops out, then you get hit in the face with some of his weird gas. He made jokes lethal or dangerous and that's what makes The Joker himself. The Batman animated series seems to me to have taken that away a bit. Plus I'm not a fan of his look at all. Made him more "primitive" and low class looking.

*prays for THE Joker in the next movie*

[vault]

But they can't make Batman darker without making Joker darker because he is Batman's dark reflection. You can blame The darker Joker and Batman actually on Frank Miller. He showed in The book Dark Knight Returns just how much the campy Batman sucked. I hate the campy Batman(see 70's - early 80's) and would much rather see darker versions of both. And the theme of the new Batman trilogy is Fear. Fear is what inspired Bruce to become Batman, and he wants the villains to feel that fear too.

IMO Evil sinister Joker > Campy funny Joker.

[Jack McArthur]

Jul 18, 2008 8:18:43 GMT -5 Scott Manor said:

*prays for THE Joker in the next movie*

Its gonna be Two-Face and l saw somewhere that Nolan was going to set up The Riddler character in the third and use him in the fourth movie.

Ohh yeah, l hate it how all the good movies open up everywhere first, and then down here last.

[m]

I like classic Joker because there was a method to his madness. There was a reason for him being who he was.

The mobster Joker back in 1989? He was just out of his mind and was a power hungry. Becoming The Joker after falling into a chemical vat just made him that worse. Plus, the anger he had over his boss trying to make him the fall guy.

Then we have The Joker that I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with. The Joker that I would consider The tragic Joker. The one who was a chemical worker who quit his job to become a stand up comedian. Then failed epicly. Had a wife and kid. Asked for help from the mafia who planned on breaking into the old chemical place. Only to find out his wife and kid died the day before but still getting pulled into the job as The Red Hood and ends up falling into the chemical vat by the end and just going absolutely insane over how life sucked so bad for him.

This Joker could have been better in my opinion. It's just really annoying that they took a character who wasn't dark and made him dark. Sure, he had his dark moments. He had his dark plots. But overall, Joker wasn't a dark person. And the fact that they didn't make him into The Joker, instead they made him a guy with make up on his face. Which is what makes The Joker who he is. The bleached skin, the green hair, the ruby lips... All natural now because of the chemicals he fell into.


I guess I can warm up to this Joker. I warmed up to the completely redesigned one from The Batman series with the weird hairstyle and straight jacket coat. *puts his CAW Smiley's face on Heath Ledger's Joker* There.

[phoenix]

[vault]

Those Marvel/DC videos pwn ;D

[m]

These people PWN.

[jj]

Jul 18, 2008 13:31:23 GMT -5 Jack McArthur said:

Jul 18, 2008 8:18:43 GMT -5 Scott Manor said:

*prays for THE Joker in the next movie*

Its gonna be Two-Face and l saw somewhere that Nolan was going to set up The Riddler character in the third and use him in the fourth movie.

Nolan isn't even sure about doing a third, and he's said before that he doesn't want to ruine it by rushing it. and Gary Oldman wants the riddler in it, Nolan was gonna keep Joker in it, and Two face. and to be honest, you can't make the riddler a serious villain, he's just not intimidating

[m]

I wish Hollywood would get some originality and do something different for once.

Maybe bust out a CG Clayface. As long as they do the character justice like The Hulk and Sandman and not rely solely on CG for fight scenes and junk.

Or maybe even Scarface, even though it might be hard to make a man with a puppet menacing in a movie without going Chucky style with it.

Hell, Ra's al Ghul would be an awesome villain to see in a movie. Maybe even bring Harley Quinn for the next movie if they keep Joker around. I know they might not be big villains or anything, but hell... Anythings better than going down the list of those already portrayed. I was surprised to see them do Scarecrow, even though he's another I really hated the design for. A bag over his head and that's supposed to be Scarecrow. Would have rather seen the all out Scarecrow outfit, but... meh... I'll stop complaining and hope they put out something decent. But it is Hollywood I'm thinking of.

[jj]

Jul 18, 2008 23:56:11 GMT -5 @m said:

I wish Hollywood would get some originality and do something different for once.

Maybe bust out a CG Clayface. As long as they do the character justice like The Hulk and Sandman and not rely solely on CG for fight scenes and junk.

Or maybe even Scarface, even though it might be hard to make a man with a puppet menacing in a movie without going Chucky style with it.

Hell, Ra's al Ghul would be an awesome villain to see in a movie. Maybe even bring Harley Quinn for the next movie if they keep Joker around. I know they might not be big villains or anything, but hell... Anythings better than going down the list of those already portrayed. I was surprised to see them do Scarecrow, even though he's another I really hated the design for. A bag over his head and that's supposed to be Scarecrow. Would have rather seen the all out Scarecrow outfit, but... meh... I'll stop complaining and hope they put out something decent. But it is Hollywood I'm thinking of.

I totaally agree with Clayface, and I thought Ra's al Ghul was the villan in Batman Begins. I also think you're thinking of the cartoon, more than anything. Chris Nolan based TDK and Begins on a Batman graphic novel. he as trying to go for more dark and realistic, then colourful and campy. I personally love what Nolan has done with the series, but I know whee you're coming from. but ya, Clayface would be awesome, its just how they pull it off, cus I personally didn't likehow spiderman 3 portrayed sandman. He was more cg than human. but then again, Two face's cg was incredible, so they could pull something off.

[mf]

;D Oh yeah. Ra's al Ghul was the guy in Batman Begins. Guess I was thinking about Scarecrow and totally neglected the other villain. Still, I would like to see someone other than Joker, Two Face, Riddler, CatWoman, Mr. Freeze, Bane, Poison Ivy, or Penguin.


How bad ass would Man-Bat be fighting Batman? ;D

[vault]

I just saw it, and...WOW!!! Ol'Jacky boy's Joker has nothing on Heath's. Heath makes Jack's Joker look like a grumpy Ronald McDonald. Not only that but Aaron Eckhart's Two-face blow's Tommy Lee Jones' out of the water...just amazing performances from them two. Until the memorial for Heath at the end I forgot he was dead...